Stop Being So Cheap
When you wander the streets of Samarkand, Uzbekistan, you can’t help but get a sore neck from all the gawking. It’s an ancient city that was a key stop on the Silk Road from China to the Middle East, and it’s steeped in amazing architecture and history that shaped the future of Asia, Persia, and the Levant. No literally, I’m not exaggerating here… if you don’t know who Tamarlane was you should read up.
Cultural Learnings Of Finances For Make Benefit This Glorious Blog
I had been traveling through Central Asia on a crazy trip that, in addition to Uzbekistan, included Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Kazakhstan. It was vacation-stan, and yes, I visited Borat’s home before he was famous.
As we strolled through Samarkand, lost in the alien world, we stumbled into an open-air market. This was a market not much different than what you’d find in most third-world countries, wild and chaotic with exotic sights and scents. But because it was near the more tourist-friendly downtown with it’s architectural wonders, it probably had more souvenirs and art than the average market.
I love nothing more than browsing hand-made art, and this market didn’t disappoint. There was table after table of amazing handmade crafts, painstakingly made by artists who were usually sitting right behind the table selling them and making more. These were things of beauty, with their own special eccentricities.
The Crowded Markets Of Central Asia
#TimeToCutARug
It’s Already On Sale
Now if you’ve never tried to buy something in a third-world market, you’re missing out. Haggling is not only expected, it’s a full-on sport. They take it to new levels. Most merchants initially quote you a super-inflated price, because they expect you to play the game. Your job is to talk them down, make a deal.
My friend (also named Dave) immediately fell in love with this hand-painted urn thingy, and started the process. To make the dialog relatable, I’ll convert the monetary amounts from Uzbekistani Soms to the approximate US dollar equivalent. But in reality we were dealing in Soms.
Dave started the whole fiasco by looking too long at the urn, which is all it takes to get them to snap to ya…
Merchant: 5 dollars!
Dave: Naaa.. too much.. 2 dollars
Merchant: For you my friend, 4 dollars, good offer!!
Dave: (not flinching) I’ll give ya two….
Merchant: Shaking head, smiling… 3.50, good price, best price!
Dave: (money in hand) That’s high, I saw another one over there for way less…. 2.50 is the most I’ll pay
Merchant: (probably not understanding a single word except the monetary amount) 3.50, final price!!
Dave: Sorry….
And so Dave turns and starts walking away. I stood there for a second a bit stunned, and then the absurdity of what I was watching got to me and I followed after him.
“Dude, are you serious? It’s a buck! You’re arguing over a buck for the price of a beautiful handmade urn with the guy who made it. To him that buck is important. You make thousands of those bucks a month! The guy is poor!”
Now before you think my friend Dave is an ass, he’s not. He’s a good dude. He just got caught up in the game of haggling. The end state to him was winning the bidding war, regardless of the ridiculously small amounts being haggled over.
Gur-e-Amir, The Tomb Of Tamarlane
The Slippery Slope To Cheapskate-hood
There’s a difference between being frugal and being cheap. Many have written about it at length, but my overarching view is this: when your frugality starts to affect others in a negative way or in a way that’s oblivious or indignant to the situation of others, then you’re probably being cheap.
Dave was being cheap.
He didn’t have the perspective to step back and see that his enthusiasm for getting the best deal was, in context of what he was trying to buy, ridiculous. We were on the other side of the globe, experiencing adventure with all of the unknowns that come with it. You get caught up.
The Detail Is Jaw-Dropping
The artist no doubt spent at least the better part of a day making the urn, maybe longer. Uzbekistan may be a very depressed economy with absurdly low prices, but my friend Dave was inadvertently saying that this merchants time and skill wasn’t worth $3.50. I had to remind him to look down…. he doesn’t even have friggin’ shoes on dude….
A Hand Painted Wooden Spoon From Uzbekistan
#IOnlyHaggledALittle
The lesson I learned that day in Samarkand is to prevent your great frugal habits from turning you into a not-so-great unappreciative cheapskate.
For your financial well-being, save where you can, save where you must. Save ruthlessly. But when you’re traveling to countries with economies that aren’t even closely related to the first world, be realistic. There’s plenty of trade-space to get a good deal and still feel good about yourself.
Be kind, be generous. You’ll find that it comes back in spades.
Your turn to chime in readers – do you have any cool or interesting stories of buying stuff in other countries?
It is a slippery slope, from frugal to cheapskate. That being said, haggling and determining the “right” or “ethical” price is very difficult. Especially when you are new to the area/culture, have exchange rates to consider and don’t know the local price level. You also have to take care not to promote tourist “extortion”. I’ve struggled with this on occasion.
Great points… I’ve been to lots of countries and when you combine exotic cultures and having to calculate crazy exchange rates on the spot it can be a challenge. And I’ve seen “tourist extortion” before, but generally it was in amounts that the tourists shouldn’t have worried about too much. Not to say stealing or charging crazy-high prices is okay, but again it’s all relative.
Thanks for stopping by Cheesy!
That’s a great story and pinpoints the vast difference really well. I think you’re right. Dave was just caught up in the moment and didn’t see the bigger picture.
Thanks for the compliment Tonya!
It’s always difficult to find the right price on goods in other countries. I remember my first time haggling in my early 20’s only because we were told on the tourist bus that it is expected. It was fun, but I was happy to pay probably a little extra for a hand crafted marble chess set than I would’ve otherwise, because I knew this was their bread and butter. Definitely a good reminder to take a step back before travel and reformulate one’s own choices before walking into these situations.
I bought a marble chess set in Peru! But just sold it on craigslist… I used to buy too many souvenirs in foreign countries and they started piling up in my house. Memories are sometimes best kept on photographs and in the brain.
Thanks for the comment Kate!
There is definitely a fine line between frugal and cheap. I think years and decades of being frugal can turn someone into becoming cheap, but it is always important to have perspective. Those situations can also be difficult because it enters emotion into the financial equation. I have found that the second emotion enters the finance equation, your principles begin to fly out the door 1 by 1.
Thanks for sharing, and thanks for taking such amazing pictures!
Yes! Emotions and money-things can be a bad combination. Those are my pictures (except Borat), so thanks!
We faced a tradeoff like that traveling with our Tai Chi group in China. People on our trip were from all over the world because the trip was organized around all who study from the Master we took seminars from. The people who were on our tour from Madagascar had the least money. The tour organizers encouraged the rest of us to let them start the bidding because the vendors typically “adjust” their prices according to what part of the world the tour bus was from. If Americans started the bidding, then the folks from Madagascar couldn’t buy anything. But at the same time, we would feel guilty haggling over pennies with people from China who had so little.
I agree that it is important to be generous. Good reminder. Frugality is best when you are making yourself do without. Not others.
That’s called “dynamic pricing”… 🙂
I think I’ve seen similar things. I know for sure if they suspect you’re from America in many places they’ll obviously just charge more. I’m okay with it as long as I feel the value of the product is worth the price.
Thanks Susan!
I really liked how you used a real personal experience to show how privileged we are in our 1st world bubble. To me that is more important than anything else. We are actually rich beyond our dreams and just need to look down to see that we have shoes on our feet.
Yeah, and I ice-climb in $500 mountaineering “shoes”. It’s absurd if you think about it. I’m very lucky.
Thanks for the compliment Chris!
I spent 6.5 months studying abroad/living in Turkey (plus an additional two weeklong trips back to Istanbul) so that was my introduction to haggling. It’s so overwhelming, especially in huge tourist trap markets! I was never very good at it and always felt like someone else could’ve gotten a better deal than I did. But in the end, you’re absolutely right: I was haggling over $5 for me and a whole lot more money for them. I could afford to not pay the absolute lowest price possible.
As an art history nerd, I gotta say mosques are some of my favorite works of art. Some of them are absolutely stunning, and bonus, they’re functional art!
What an amazing experience that must’ve been. You’re probably a better haggler than you think, that’s lots of practice. I’ve been pretty much everywhere in Europe but sadly never Turkey. I wanna go!
Those mosques and temples in Uzbekistan and all through Central Asia were spectacular. I have thousands of pics like the ones in this post and I still enjoy looking at them.
Thanks for the comment Erin!
While I’ve never haggled in foreign countries before (my international travels have been limited) I do think you bring up a good point.
While many financial blogs hammer the point that unnecessary small expenditures can add up and thus should be eliminated, I think this is an exception to the rule.
When you can purchase something like that which carries a cultural significance for so cheap, I think that can be well worth the value. Not to mention greatly helping out that individual person!
Yes, when you go to a 3rd world country, it’s my opinion that you should turn off your “frugal mode” and be realistic. Of course you don’t want to be ripped off, but in my experience that’s not common. It’s more common to see Westerners being a bit too tight with their money.
Thanks for stopping by!
A great reminder. Frugality is only ao Rewarding.
Yes indeed Doc!
I’m currently on a work trip in Nigeria and I totally get what you are saying. Sometimes you have to come out of the tunnel vision of ‘accomplishing FI goals’ and realize that it’s such a privilege to even pursue FI! Many many people don’t even have that kind of opportunity.
I’m sure the markets in Nigeria are just as or even more crazy! Tunnel vision is a great description of what could happen.
Enjoy your travels and thanks for the comment!
“Be kind. Be generous.”
This reminds me of some really great life advice I gleaned from…the medical drama ER of all places. One of the main characters told his young daughter “Be generous…with your time…with your love” before he passed away from a brain tumor. The show has been off for years, but that scene and those words have always stayed with me. Sometimes the simplest words are the best ones.
Thanks for a great story.
Ha, ER! I remember that show but didn’t watch it too much. That’s awesome that you remember that scene and that message. It’s a timeless message indeed.
Thanks for the comment Lindsay!
on the rate occasion i do to a diner any more i’ll commonly leave a 50% tip on something like a 10 dollar check. the extra 2-3 bucks up from the normal won’t impact my life, but that server is really humping it usually. fine dining i keep it more along the normal as to go from 20% to 50 could be a chunk of change.
Sounds like a good practice Freddy, thanks for the comment!
A great reminder of how good we have it sometimes in first world countries. Did anyone else spend the entire article wondering what the urn looked like?
Ha, unfortunately I didn’t buy one myself and I never got a picture of my buddies urn. I did buy that wooden spoon though, and that’s my souvenir from Uzbekistan.
Thanks for the comment Olivia!
I might have been like Dave and Mr. Groovy wouldn’t even have haggled at all. He would have paid full price knowing that the money could make a difference to someone and not to us.
True story my my brother-in-law told me. Don’t ever do this especially in Italy. My BiL was buying an inexpensive piece of artwork in Italy. Many artists were in the space selling similar items. After haggling a bit, he agreed on the price and the artist began wrapping up the painting. Then, my BiL, who’s a big joker, kidded with the artist and asked him “So, will this painting be worth a lot more after — you know — after, you’re gone? All hell broke loose. The artist got up all red faced to punch him and called some friends over. My BiL managed to escape,barely, with his purchased painting and his face intact. Apparently the artist thought my BiL was putting a curse on him.
Wow, that’s crazy! Sounds like an off-the-cuff comment I would make, in jest of course. But seriously, that artist might wanna lighten up a bit ya know?
Thanks for the comment Mrs. Groovy!
“Thrifty, not cheap”. That’s the family mantra I grew up with.
Really enjoying your blog as it’s relatable to the type of travel, adventure, and financial lifestyle that my wife and I enjoy. She worked in Pakistan and Afghanistan for awhile. The other ‘Stans are on the short list. We chose bike touring in Patagonia this year for a month of frugal (tent) living, but maybe next year we will head to Central Asia. Any thoughts on bike travel in the region?
Wow, you guys are awesome! You don’t hear too many people who wish to go to Central Asia muchless bike across it so kudos. I’ve been to Afghanistan as well and hope to do a blog post in the future about it but have to relate it to finances in some way.
Turkmenistan would probably be off-limits to bike travel since it’s a very tightly controlled country and dictatorship. We had to jump through some hoops to get in, but their old dictator died so things might be loosening up. For bike travel, I would recommend Kyrgyzstan. We found it the most friendly to westerners and the mountains are jaw-dropping. Here’s a video of a famous mountaineer who solo biked around the country and did some first ascents.
Unfortunately, he died a few years ago on another mountain in Pakistan. He was at the elite level, always pushing it. And elite mountaineers live on the edge of death.
Thanks so much for the kind words and for reading!
Wow, great article. You are so right about getting caught up in the haggle business. We have done that before in Mexico and yes it does get a little ridiculous at times. We have so much and they have so little.
Thanks Bob, glad you enjoyed it!
Great post! It reminds me a lot when I was in Southeast Asia and there was an expectation of haggling, but when you think about it, we were haggling over a $3 T-shirt! Thank you for the perspective reminder.
Exactly, $3 for a shirt is already ridiculously cheap. At what point is it almost free?
Thanks so much for stopping by!
Great story to remind us to put things in perspective. I’m not fond of negotiating but understand it’s a way of life for many.
Wow I’d love to see the detail of that building photo in person, looks amazing!
Haggling makes me uncomfortable too. I’ll never really be comfortable with it.
I have TONS of pics from that trip and I took so many in Samarkand it’s ridiculous. It was hard to choose what to put in the post.
Thanks for the comment!
Good one. It’s indeed a slippery slope, one that I’ve slipped on quite a few times in the heat of a haggle in Asia. But what takes the cake is when my former Boss, who is rich beyond my imagination, takes this to a new level by haggling his way to a “win” in every interaction. From five star hotels to street vendors, this guy wants the best deal, all the time! I’ve tried talking to him to tone down but he gets far too much pleasure out of the game “winning” it, and seeing the other side squirm, frown or even plead. That is being cheap in my book.
Your boss sounds like he’s permanently caught in the competitive game of winning. My friend Dave isn’t normally like that and the adventure of the Central Asia trip spurred him on. But to be like that all the time must be just stressful.
Thanks for the comment!
Ah, I enjoy haggling when the time is right. I got a whole $50 off our roof by asking at the home improvement store. I know on my first stint in East Africa I probably walked away from many deals over a dollar or two (silly college student me). But I also learned to negotiate more on the higher priced items (hotel and safari), which feels a bit more reasonable even today.
On my last trip to Tanzania I got a brand new pair of birkenstocks for $4, that was the starting point, I hesitated briefly before the math clicked and accepted the offer. They are now my summer wedding shoes. 😃
Awesome reminder, and yeah, it’s easy to get swept up.
Haggling here in America is awesome and I will do it ruthlessly! In the third world I now take a different approach. Great score on those Birkenstocks!!
In my cheaper days I’d probably back out of the $3.50 deal like Dave did and walk back and pay the $2-2.50 elsewhere assuming the goods were of similar value and quality. Not that I begrudge the $3.50 vendor the extra buck, but I’d just as soon get a better price and help the $2.50 vendor provide for himself and his family too.
Digging into the psychology behind it, I think it’s more the distaste for getting ripped off and paying tourist prices more than trying to save the extra dollar.
Now that I’m wealthier, I try to think about it in absolute terms. If I’m paying 2 pesos per kilo too much for mangoes in a fresh fruit market in Mexico, it’s gonna be ok 🙂 And it’s not worth shopping around to nail down that price that’s 2 pesos less! That’s $0.10 in US dollars and an amount I’d never be bothered with saving in the US if it took more than a second of effort.
Exactly Justin, and I was like that too as I did all my crazy traveling in my 20’s and 30’s. It was on this trip in particular that it started to sink in to me to start re-thinking what I was doing.
I do see the feeling behind “it’s the exact same item, and you’re charging more!” – no one wants to be ripped off. But how is that different than being at home and passing one gas station for another with more expensive gas because they have a bigger convenience store and you need to go to the bathroom? So you pay 2 cents more per gallon for gas. Big deal.
Now I need some mangoes 🙂
I’d say the 2 cents more expensive gas station is actually offering a superior service and product. And I’ve paid that 2 cent differential at least a few times because the five of us had to pee and I knew the 2 cents cheaper place didn’t have bathrooms. All about getting value for your limited dollars!
My brother is a bit nutty, he’ll drive 10 minutes (20 roundtrip) extra to save 2 cents per gallon. His car holds 15 gallons. I asked him “is 20 minutes of your time worth 30 cents?”
To him it’s a mental thing that he thinks he’s winning. I beg to differ.
That’s just crazy but my dad will do the same thing. Drive to the other side of town to save under a buck. Or “save” might be more accurate since he’s probably spending $0.50 to drive the several miles across town.
This is such a great reminder. Sometimes it’s okay to overpay. It would really be a shame to
miss out on a unique one of a kind item to win a negotiation against a guy with no shoes.
The currency I always underestimate is time. I have been known to spend an hour trying to save a few bucks on something. When looking at it objectively, the time lost is often worth way more than the money saved.
Exactly! Time is a currency and I do the same very often. I get into “analysis paralysis” mode, especially in online shopping since you can read endless reviews and watch countless YouTube videos of a product. Too much information isn’t always good.
Yes, I agree. I used to get caught up in the game many years ago I was young and I like to win the game. At the time the impact didn’t really hit me. Now that I’m older I don’t really haggle much, especially when in reality it is often just pennies to me.
Agreed Bonnie – thanks for stopping by and reading!
I agree that one shouldn’t be cheap. But I disagree that Dave was cheap. If you’re haggling in Asia, it’s a sport, the merchant and your friend Dave are equals. If a multimillionaire is buying a car, you wouldn’t say just pay $1,000 extra for it, what’s it to you? Look at this poor car salesman!
I don’t believe in paying more out of pity for the merchant or because it’s only $1 and because Dave has more money. If Dave wanted the thing for $2.50 and could get it for $2.50 at the next stall, then he’s supporting that merchant. If Dave didn’t want the thing for $3.50, why should he buy it?
I like your take on it. I just started seeing it a bit different after being in places like Afghanistan that are so poor it makes you want to join the Peace Corps.
On the surface you’re taking a very peer-based and quantitative approach to it. Same item, why pay more? But a difference here is that these are not identical factory produced widgets – they’re literally hand carved and painted items, by the seller. So while I agree with your approach more for cookie-cutter items, in this case each individual item has eccentricities/differences/flaws etc.
One vendor makes an object that’s popular and others mimic the item – you’ve no doubt seen it before in your travels. But there’s still an individuality to each item. So I think it’s a bit different here but I’m with you on your overall take. It’s a great topic of discussion for us money folks 🙂
I think the difference is, it doesn’t seem like Dave cared that much about the item or its eccentricities. A pauper could be selling something he spent his whole life making and if I don’t want to spend $3 for it, why would I? I mean, if that’s being cheap, shouldn’t you have bought something from every stand for $3 just because you have the money?
Cheapness is about selfishness at all costs. I think what you’re talking about is Dave should have been driven by guilt over the wealth disparity and just gotten the item he didn’t care that much about out of pity. To me, that’s something different though I don’t have a word for it.
Yep totally with you on this one, although it is a total minefield so you really have to think about the particular country and what the average wage/cost is in that particular country. Many European countries have haggling so being from the UK I have been exposed to it over the years with more local holidays, but then to go to more third world countries such as in South America it’s hard to get out of that habit of trying to get the best deal just so you know you aren’t the one being shafted. Also when we went to SA we were genuinely on a shoe string budget so we couldn’t really afford to drop much on trinkets, and so didn’t really do much haggling at all as we just couldn’t buy any of it… I genuinely felt bad seeing all of those people who I know are only making a living out of tourism, and I was a tourist, but I just couldn’t afford to buy their stuff otherwise I would have to cut my trip short. Still, you can’t buy everything from everyone otherwise you’d end up with a warehouse full of crap!!!
Another funny story from Thailand a few years ago… I started to “haggle” with a woman buying some beach towels in just a fairly normal shop (which is fine over there) and she accepted my initial offer straight away. My wife looked at me a little oddly and I kind of felt like I messed up but the transaction was basically done. When we got out the shop I said… “I messed up there didn’t I?” and I had calculated the exchange rate wrong and paid about £20 for 2 towels… which was probably pretty much what her original offer was for them! I should have managed to get them for about £4 I think judging from general prices in Thailand. Ah well… She would have had a great bonus and probably had a funny story to tell to her friends and family about the stupid Westerner that night 🙂
Cheers!
I fell into the trap of buying my Mom something from every country I visited. She’s already a pack-rat and now the stuff is just clutter. It’s nice memories sure, and some is really crafty art, but I’ve come to realize pictures are the best way to supplant memories in the brain.
Love your Thailand story, that’s another country I’ve yet to visit but will for sure one day!
Chatted up a stranger reading a travel guidebook this past summer — turns out she’d been to over 100 countries. She recommended the Stans!
I grew up in the same part of the world as RB40 and have been to ~45 countries (approximate count because of places like Taiwan and Scotland).
Despite this — or perhaps as a result of it? — I’ve never gotten totally comfortable with haggling or tipping. So many unspoken rules. So much context that is missing. But perhaps that is part of the picture: I’ve come to consider the social interaction and the experience as part of the “price” rather than a straight-up valuation of the wares.
The ‘Stans are really wild to travel to, so much history and culture. As for haggling, I think it becomes a game for many and it’s more about winning than what you’re actually paying.
Ha – yes, I do like winning and I do love a deal, I think I just prefer to do it where the rules of engagement are a little better established, and maybe without the art valuation twist 🙂 Having said that, resistance to a collection of knick-knacks leaves, what, accommodations and food as haggleable offerings? That levels the playing field a lot.
Impressive job linking Central Asia travel and financial mindset in a post. And an equally impressive comment section!
I’ll have to let the idea of going there percolate, maybe look up what Seat61 has to say about train travel. I wonder if it’ll be like my experience in Türkiye where it felt like the vast majority of tourist-facing interaction was with the male segment of the population…
As for the male/female dynamic, I found the Central Asian countries a mixed bag. Compared to the west women are by far looked down upon more and subjugated, but the bigger cities in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan weren’t too bad. A caveat is that my experience was from 2004 so can’t say if it’s gotten better or worse.