How The Great Depression Still Affects Me Today
Not My Parents But I Imagine They Participated In Scenes Like This
My Father was born on October 18th, 1929. Both of his parents died before I was born, so I can’t exactly picture what the scene might have looked like when, 6 days later on Oct. 24th the stock market crashed and plunged America into the Great Depression.
My Mother was a whopping 5 months old, born that previous May. So my parents could not have timed their grand entrance into the world at a worse time. The Great Depression is, and hopefully will stay, by far the granddaddy of all economic downturns in America.
Most of us are more familiar with the 2008 recession since we lived through it. I’ve heard folks comment that it was similar or just as bad, but that’s preposterous. I’m not diminishing what happened in 2008 and how it affected people, but facts are facts. Unemployment from the 2008 downturn – 8.5%. The Great Depression – 25%. Yes, 3 times as much. Economic decline from 2008? – 3.3% Economic decline from Great Depression? – 26.5% Eight times worse.
There’s really no comparison, and for most of us who didn’t live through the Great Depression we’ll likely (and again, hopefully) never understand how bad it really was.
INSULT TO INJURY
The Dust Bowl
On top of it all, the Dust Bowl coincided with it in the 1930’s. Talk about kicking someone when they’re down. There were real food shortages. Like “sorry we’re outta food, and so is the store down the street”.
There was no food shortage in 2008-09. Sure, you might have lost your job and had a much harder time paying for food, but it was there to be bought, and plentiful as always. We still had 122 flavors of barbeque sauce in the local grocery store and the same endless choices of unhealthy processed and packaged junk food that we don’t need. In the Great Depression, not only were you 3 times more likely to not have a job, even if you did there might not be food to buy anyway.
People are a product of their times. And when you grew up like my parents did, milking every possible use out of every object because you had to, you valued stuff. Because you didn’t have much of it.
They didn’t throw away those old socks with holes in them, because the remaining fabric could be used to patch the holes in the other socks.
As young kids they didn’t know that they were in extraordinary times. That was just how things worked. When poverty and depravity are all you know, it’s your normal.
This was the world my Mom and Dad were thrust into. Until I learned about the Great Depression in school I was oblivious to their times. And until I became a working adult and started accumulating stuff, I was oblivious to how those times undoubtedly shaped or affected every single thing about their attitudes and behaviors. It defined them, and their generation.
FORCED DELAYED GRATIFICATION
Eating Less Bread Wins Wars!
#IfYouWereGlutenIntolerantWW2WasYourTime
Then, as World War II raged on in the early 1940’s and America’s economic engine shot to the stratosphere, my parents experienced rationing. Food, gas, and clothing were rationed at home for the war effort. So even though employment rates went way up and the economy was finally booming, things that were now tantalizingly within economic reach were being rationed.
C’mon man, really?
It’s as if you’ve been stranded on a deserted island eating bugs for a week and you get rescued by a Carnival Cruise ship with an unlimited buffet, but they tell you to wait for a while before you can come to dinner.
When World War II ended and the post-war boom began, my parents were in high school. For the first time they started to experience an existence that wasn’t overshadowed by either depression or rationing.
To say that the events of the first 17 years of their lives rubbed off on them would be an understatement. My parents had, was is commonly called a “depression-era mindset”. Everything needed to be held on to because it might be needed one day. It was a tactic born out of protection and safety.
And since parents teach their kids, a lot of this rubbed off on me. By their behavior, my parents inadvertently instilled a hoarding mentality into me.
And here’s the thing – I’ve been fighting this mindset my entire life. It’s a continual battle. Sometimes I’m winning, and sometimes I’m losing.
DOES “ONE DAY” EVER COME?
Less Clutter
My journey to financial independence has been littered with junk drawers worth of stuff I might need one day. To be honest, sometimes it paid to hold on to some of that stuff. I’m pretty adept at fixing broken things with other leftover things. Twist ties and key chain rings can do wonders.
But mostly this mindset has created clutter and stress in my life. I hold onto things. When I think about throwing something out or giving it away, the thought goes through my head, …..“what if I need that one day”.
It’s kind of a curse, to be honest. Because as the minimalist and anti-clutter movements have come to light and gained steam, with their tiny houses and disciples of Marie Kondo, I clearly see the benefits. Sometimes I win a battle and have that rare day when I toss out a bunch of crap, and it feels good. I feel more free.
But inevitably I fall off the wagon again. I come home and notice my dining room table is full of papers and my computer desk is a junk pile. What is this stuff? Why am I keeping this?
My struggle with stuff has definitely played a key role in my journey to financial independence. On one hand, holding onto things is not always bad. Sometimes while others are throwing away older models and upgrading, I’m still using the old one. So in many ways this trait has prevented waste and instilled a tendency to maximize the usefulness of items. For that I’m happy.
But in other ways my struggle has just bogged me down and created unnecessary stress. I can take the good with the bad and just continue as is, or I can try to change going forward. I want to succeed at the latter, but tend to fall back to the former. Habits ingrained from childhood are stubborn.
HISTORY HAS REACH
I don’t blame my parents for any of this. They did the best they could. Any of us who didn’t go through the Great Depression should read more about it before we criticize those who did. Current babies will be a product of their environment too, and will one day in the future be pissed if they actually have to control a car, or aren’t connected to the world at all times.
I love history, it was my minor in college. And one of the most fascinating things about it is it’s reach. Obviously in a direct way history matters, especially geopolitically. If it weren’t for an Allied victory in World War II or America winning the Cold War we’d be living in a very different world.
But history has a far more indirect reach by shaping attitudes and cultural norms. And we must all realize that parts of our personalities and behaviors can probably be traced to events in history.
Whether your parents were hippies from the 60’s and your name is Patchouli, or your tend to keep things you don’t need like me, history is in you and with you. Learning about it can help you understand yourself better, and improve your life going forward.
Great post. It is a fine line to balance between frugality/utilisation and plain hoarding.
I admit I feel a bit guilty when I get 3 writing pads and 3 packets of mechanical pencil lead from the stationary storage at work. But WHAT IF they run out exactly when I used my last page or really need a new packet of lead? It is like a disease, and I do try to declutter regularly, but it feels so wrong to be throwing out perfectly functional stuff.
My parents and grandparents used to take us to flea markets as a child because those were the things we could afford. But boy oh boy, how much junk and worthless knickknacks I would accumulate. I am glad I have since moved multiple times and saw sense to throw it out, but a part of that hoarder just doesn’t rest. She wants another writing pad, “just in case”, even though I have three of them and two highlighters already. I imagine I am the type of personality that attracts the collective sigh of office admins.
But what if?
“But boy oh boy, how much junk and worthless knickknacks I would accumulate.”
Yep, describes much of my childhood. School stationary was a particular attraction for me for whatever reason. I used to pile up the pads/pens/paper etc.
Thanks for the kinds words!
I struggle with getting rid of stuff. When I was a kid, we used to have a “bin” (repurposed kitchen sink) to put all kinds of bits and odds we find. We had a “store room” where we would keep stuff that we don’t need now, but might, another day. We hardly there away anything. Everything was repurposed or stored for a future use.
Things are better for me now. My husband hates clutter and it has been rubbing off on me. I have been getting rid of stuff. Not buying anything helps too.
Sounds like you and your husband have a nice ying/yang when it comes to this. Opposites can help each other out in many ways!
This is a very interesting post and I feel like a lot of people will be able to relate. My parents (in their low 50’s) and dad in particular is very much like this: always keeping things around because he never knows when he might need it again (even though when he does end up needing it, he sometimes forgets he has it!)
I love history as well (also a history minor!) and I think that reading and learning about historical periods can help you to understand why people are the way they are, and help you get in their shoes and relate.
Let’s hope that no one has to go through anything like this again!
“even though when he does end up needing it, he sometimes forgets he has it!”
Been there!! Don’t worry, you’re so darn young. Memory loss comes on in a veeeeery slow creep, but it will come 🙂
I think there are pros and cons to that mindset of hanging on to things. My grandparents lived through the depression and I remember when something broke as a kid, my grandpa would take it to his basement workshop to fix it, even if it looked ugly and was never its former glorious self. He yelled at us if we walked out of the room even for a second to turn off the lights. He saved EVERY container that food came in for leftovers and got mad at us if we forgot to bring the containers back. But…there was a method to his madness. His containers were always incredibly neat. They really valued the stuff they bought. He tended and cared for EVERYTHING. Traits I really admire. I think it’s finding that balance between those two worlds of letting stuff go, and hanging on and really valuing the things that are most important to us…and not buying anything that won’t really value and use. cough cough. lol!
“Hold on to that spare drone, I might need it one day…”
Kidding!
Yes, like I mentioned in the post there are some advantages. I have some VERY old stuff that still works fine. Heck, I might do a post or two about some of those things come to think of it. As you said it’s about striking the right balance. That kinda describes most things in life!
My parents and my wife’s, as kids of the greatest generation both have this mindset as well. It’s enough to make you dread clearing out their home when they decide to move to a retirement home.
Picturing my kids having to clean up my mess is enough for me to avoid hoarding.
I went through that last spring. Cleaned out the house I grew up in and moved my Mom to a condo in the suburbs. It was a MESS. We found soooo much crap. And she would say “don’t throw that away!!”. Things that hadn’t seen the light of day in 45 years!
Be nice to your kids – be a minimalist! 🙂
Agree wholeheartedly. Cleaning up a beloved relative’s stuff is both emotionally painful and physically time consuming. Be good to your beneficiaries – put most of your ‘stuff’ into mutual funds 🙂
Yes! Thanks for stopping by!
There is so much truth in the post. We carry history with us, in us. It’s daunting to think that we actually have to heal for generations of hurt. Sounds like an Indigo Gurls song!
Ha, maybe I’ll write a song for them and see if they’ll record it! The healing process will go on in my family at least for a while, but I can’ blame my parents. I can only imagine what their early lives were like.
My parents were older than yours, my dad was old enough to fight in WWII. So they were teenagers when yours were infants. They were frugal but there was not much of a hoarding instinct. I think the lessons they taught in looking for value and working hard were huge reasons for my and my wife’s success. I also think that there is a little creeping hoarding factor that sneaks up on everyone as they age, depression impacted or not, just because older people get less secure as they begin to lose control of their environment and become more dependent on others but you are dead on about how the depression echoes in our lives even today! It was ironic in my parents case that they saved up a small fortune and then when they were in a position to enjoy it health issues pretty much grounded them from traveling which was what they had planned to do. That has convinced me to live larger now and maybe hand down a little less to my kids!
I got the “always work hard” lessons loud and clear from both parents as well. It worked for me as well. I wouldn’t be where I am now if it weren’t for their example.
Interesting point you make about people losing getting less secure and losing control. When we took my mom’s car keys away, that was a biggie indeed. Loss of independence is a big deal.
Thanks for the comment Steve!
we have this big house and it’s full. for the past 6 months we’ve sold a ton of crap with the intention of reducing. instead of the place looking much less cluttered now we just have little piles of stuff all around the joint waiting to be sold or packed or shipped. doh! i think it’s now time for more tossing away to get back the balance.
The “little piles of stuff all around” thing – yep, that’s what my childhood house turned into this time last year when we cleaned it out. It was crazy. Sometimes I just threw crap away without even looking to see if I could sell it or give it away. If I analyzed everything it would have never gotten done.
My grandfather was born towards the end of the Great Depression and grew up extremely poor as the oldest of 8 kids on a farmstead in rural Ohio. I’ve heard stories about what it was like cleaning out the farm when my great-grandparents died, back when my mom and her siblings were still pretty young, and it’s clear that the hoarding/scarcity mindset gene has been passed down through my family. His pack-rat/cheapness (because unfortunately he takes frugality to a level it shouldn’t go to, even though he’s a multi-millionaire on paper) tendencies came out in full force after my grandmother died about a decade ago, and continued unabated until he met my step-grandmother, who’s tried to make him do things like wear the clothes he has in his closet instead of saving them for later because they’re “too good” to use, or pay for a good pair of shoes so he’s not limping around because the cheap, old pair he wears doesn’t offer any support.
After they got married, my mom and her siblings went through the house to clean it up before it got sold, and now our house has a bunch of things from my grandfather’s house to add to the general clutter that was there before. My parents actually took a week off of work not that long ago to go through some of the stuff in our house and get rid of it, and it sounds like they didn’t make much progress. I have this deep-seated fear in the back of my mind of something happening to my parents, saddling my siblings and me with all of their stuff, which we don’t want.
I’m certainly not a hoarder, although I do have more clutter than I’d like, but I still struggle with getting the balance right. I certainly don’t want to stuff my apartment with things just in case, but I also don’t want to spend the money on buying something I could’ve easily just kept in a corner of my closet somewhere and also increase my environmental impact that much more.
It’s not just stuff that my grandfather hoards, though. It makes me sad on so many levels that he won’t spend the money he has to make his life more comfortable because it’s all tied up in stocks and therefore he has no cash and is “poor” because he refuses to sell any stocks. His life’s goal seems to have morphed into amassing the highest possible net worth when he dies, never mind that my grandmother would’ve joyfully given money to charity and her family (regardless of need, but CERTAINLY she would’ve helped out with medical bills and spells of unemployment, all of which have happened in my extended family) and spent her time visiting us and helping out in her community. It’s unfortunately a huge point of contention in our family and has been for years. So not only am I trying to find the balance in my life of stuff/too much stuff, I’m also deeply aware that money for the sake of money is not a pretty thing. History is a funny thing, and I guess every time I stop myself from beating myself up about spending too much money because I refuse to turn into my grandfather, that’s echoes of the Great Depression, multiple generations later.
Wow, if I knew this story we could have written this post together! This is the best comment ever on my blog, thanks for detailing your experience with this topic Erin. You could use this for a post of your own 🙂
Crazy how your Granddad just wants to keep accumulating – doesn’t he know about the Trinity Study!!!
As far as your comment about “getting saddled with stuff”, the fear is real. It kinda happened to me and my brother, but we did draw the line and toss or giveaway a TON of stuff. My Mom would yell at us, but we just pushed on and tossed it anyway. I kept things of some value like my Dad’s record collection from the 50’s and stuff like that. I’ll sell those one day. But man, it was mostly junk from another time.
Also crazy that your Granddad has all his money in stocks still! He needs to move over to bonds at his age – teach him!!
Lastly, “money for the sake of money”, what a great comment. Yep, money is a tool. To buy back time. And only then once you’ve bought back time and control, can it buy happiness. Or that’s how I see it 🙂
(Latin American) history minor here as well!
It’s really sobering to put the Great Depression numbers up against the last recession. They aren’t even close.
Yep, the numbers are scary, 1 in 4 people unemployed!!
It’s insane to think about. And the idea that even WITH money, there wasn’t always anything to even buy.
My parents were amazing at getting the last dot of mustard or peanut butter out of the jar. One day, my Dad had been running low on toothpaste and he cut the bottom of the tube so he could squeeze that end. My husband saw it and carried it out into the Living Room to ask, hilariously, if it was okay to throw that away. Of course, everyone jumped immediately “NNOOOOOOO”.
And of course they were hoarders too. My Dad was a mechanic and when a friend of mine’s car battery died outside our house, my Dad actually had a replacement in the garage. He was like that. And you can imagine the garage!
Yeah, I think a bit of that rubbed off on me. And I don’t mind at all.
Don’t get me wrong, I try not to waste anything of value so I’m all about stompin on the toothpaste tube to bleed it dry. But it’s the not-so-useful stuff that piles up that has me scratchin my head. When we cleaned out my Mom’s house, she had 3 curtain steamers – two weren’t even opened but were 1990’s technology. To be clear, no one would have dared bother cleaning or steaming our ugly 1970’s-era curtains 🙂
Now in my late 40’s, I’ve got a lifetime of stuff that I need to clean up and go through. I’ve realized I just have too much stuff a few years ago and really stopped buying things that I dont need, even though I could afford it. Its going to be a chore to go through everything and will take a long time but Im working on it. All this stuff really does bog you down. Plus all the time Im going to “waste” sorting it all out when I could be doing other more enjoyable things. It may be hard to see, but buying less junk also gives you more of a financial buffer and you could put more of that money into savings or investments. Funny thing a few days ago…Ebay had a coupon for 20% off everything and I thought this would be a good opportunity to snag a good deal (cheaper Ebay price + another 20% off) but after looking around there wasnt anything I really needed and had to pass.
Sounds like you’re on the right path but it’s hard. The struggle is real. I’m right there with ya man!
The way I avoid Ebay coupons is by not going to their site and unsubscribing from their email lists 🙂
Love this post and enjoyed reading all the comments! I used to have the mindset that I couldn’t get rid of things because I might need them someday, too. What this really looked like was a storage unit I had to pay for to keep all the stuff in that I rarely used – and often couldn’t find. I discovered I purchased duplicates of items because I forgot what I already had in storage! I am so glad to have gotten over that! No longer have a storage unit and I continue to try to purge things.
Glad to hear you got over those behaviors! My Mom also bought a storage unit for Christmas decorations of all things after we downsized her to a smaller place to live. I’ve been hounding her ever since to get rid of it and to let me sell or trash the stuff. The battle never ends!
Thanks for the comment!
I’m wondering if it’s just human to keep things you bought, “just in case”. It seems like unconsciously we know we’ve paid for those things, and the money has costed us many grueling hours of work.
We have the same problem at home, me included, not being able to throw things we don’t need anymore simply because we may need them one day in the future. We forget about the cost of storing all those things. It ends up with a fully cluttered garage. Then, the house starts to fill in too. Then, you catch yourself looking for a bigger house to store even more stuff you don’t need.
I think at some level it is just being human, but the behavior is much stronger in some people, like me. I have friends who have no qualms about tossing out stuff without thinking twice. While they waste a lot on one hand, they also don’t have clutter. The key is to not buy what you don’t need in the first place.
History nerds unite! I love history too and I can relate to much of this post. Being Chinese, well we weren’t here yet during the Great Depression, but my parents starved in their own country and carry the habits from that. I inherited a strange hoarding mix frugality as well but I’m always thankful for the lessons learned (and I’m still glad I’m not the spendthrift kind of people! A lot more troubling!)
Wow Lily, I can only imagine your parents and grandparents went through similar or worse hardships. Thanks for being a frugal history nerd! 😉
This is a very thoughtful post!
Although my mom was born in 1928 she didn’t grow up with the mindset of holding on to things. I think perhaps it’s because she (and subsequently my family) always lived in apartments that were not very large.
Occasionally I struggle with “just in case” but mostly I’m good and getting rid of things I haven’t used in a year or two. Our impending move is forcing me to look at items more closely. We’ll need a storage unit while our house is being built (and we live with Mr. G’s parents) and I want to know that every piece we put in there is something we’ll use.
Sounds like you guys have this problem figured out. I’ve heard many people say that a move is a great way to get back to balance with the level of stuff in your life.
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I don’t know if the ‘but I might need it someday’ is passed down, or what, because I’ve got it too. Luckily my stashes are small. Mostly documents and craft supplies that are organized in a drawer system. I do have probably 10-12 pair of gloves. Really I need 2-3 but what if a friend is over and needs to borrow a pair, some day? 🙂
“what if a friend is over and needs to borrow a pair, some day?”
I’ve saved stuff for that exact reason. Hard habit to break!
Love this older post – thought-provoking, as usual! I never considered the connection between that “maybe I can use this one day” urge to never throw junk out, and the “things might be really terrible one day” suspicion that is always lurking in the folds of my brain.
Currently I just try to make a distinction between stuff I’m keeping out of irrational fears vs. things that truly might become a replacement part or material for a patch. I allow my “tools and parts” shelves to be cluttered, but not my clothing closet. There is a ton of irrationally-accumulated detritus in our lives, which really hinders our growth and sense of peace more than helping us.
Although I don’t salute my home when I arrive, our say “thank you” to things that I donate or discard, I do highly recommend going through the Marie Kondo steps. It’s extremely liberating.
Thanks for the kudos. I read Marie Kondo but didn’t really follow through. But I am still making progress in my own way
Three of my four grandparents lived through the Great Depression, but all of them spent their lives living the effects of it and it’s been passed onto me and less so onto my brothers. I don’t believe it was passed on at all to any of my cousins, well, maybe, MAYBE one. I’m not a hoarder, but I do hang onto things just in case. I also hang onto things for emotional ties, but living in smaller spaces forced me to start weeding out maybe seven years ago. It’s nice to get rid of stuff! I’ve learned you can’t hang onto everything, but you do have to decide which things could actually serve you well if you hang onto it. I think this is part of my need to save money too, which came from my grandparents — you never know when you’re going to need that money. And that one habit of hanging onto my money has served me extremely well! I’m thankful I paid attention enough to maintain that habit, even though I’ve never suffered the experience of not having enough. Watching all the people in their 40s, 50s, and 60s in my office in New York after the Lehman Brothers collapse was enough to convince me I was right to have saved like I did. Nice post!
Yes – hanging on to money is a GREAT habit. You may indeed need it one day 🙂
Great comment. And wow, I can’t imagine seeing those corporate bankers during that time, that must’ve left a mark.
Yes, like when an awesome opportunity pops up to see another part of the world.
Son of a man who was a teen in The Great Depression. I retired three years ago, living comfortably and even growing my savings, but went back to work. Because The Great Depression. History teaches us that things that DID happen are things that MAY happen again. Also, my cheapskate father retired with ‘all the money he should need’ per the financial advice of the time. He lived a skinflint life, yet he ran out of money. The lesson the Great Depression should still be teaching us is that the unexpected can and WILL happen. You can never be prepared for every possibility. But (and this is definitely my dad speaking) wasting perfectly good things WILL leave you unprepared for SOME of the possibilities. By every reasonable projection I’m fixed until beyond age 100 even if I never earn another cent. But every cent I save, every old thing I keep using, is one more piece of feels-right insurance against The Unforseen. Seems excessive. But I am forever the son of my father. I live happily in an uncluttered home furnished with perfectly good OLD stuff (but new when new is needed!), and feel no guilt about consciously preparing for another Great Depression I believe I’ll never see.
Wow, awesome comment Jim and I find myself in your behaviors. I sometimes feel I’ll never have enough to get the peace of mind that I want, and a good part of that comes from my parents experience. But I also don’t want to keep on working in an office, so I’m using my part time semi-FIRE to explore new career opportunities that are more fun, including my graphic arts business.
Thanks for stopping by!
Wow! Reading this article feels like you must know my family as well. My Grandparents were born in 1933. They would often tell me stories from their childhood. My grandfather’s parents did anything they could to survive from farming to making their own shoes. My grandmother’s family had an orange grove in California and they all worked the land. Both of them told us stories about how food and supplies such as sugar, flour, rubber were rationed. They would get creative and make their own shoes out of items like cardboard and hides. My grandfather became a pilot, and an airline mechanic / inspector. He made good money, but would keep a tight rein on how it was spent. Although, he would go to auction and buy things every Friday night. He would take us with him and I even earned a job in the concession stand as a kid. Lol.
It’s like he could justify spending money if it was something used that he could take apart to fix something else. You didn’t throw things away unless he had already tried to fix them and didn’t succeed. He also was very conservative with electricity (don’t dare walk out and leave a light on! Lol) and grew their own produce and had chickens when they had the strength to do so.
He was very resourceful and invented things all the time to make work easier. I was sure there wasn’t any broken things he couldn’t fix…. but man, he was a hoarder, and my grandmother worked hard to keep his hoarding at bay. They had around 4 acres of land and over the years he filled it with used cars (intended for parts of course), appliances, scrap metal, tools, mowers (he started a lawn maintenance company when he retired from the airlines.) When my grandmother passed away from cancer, it all got worse. I believe it was part of how he coped (or rather didn’t.)
The property was unrecognizable, the living conditions unhealthy, and my mom would spend months cleaning it up and remodeling for him. It was heartbreaking seeing the land of my childhood memories turn into a junk heap. There were valuable things there, but they were buried with old, somewhat useless nicknacks. He passed over a year ago, and my mom and her brothers are trying to resolve how to take care of all that he left. Sadly, he suffered with dementia his last few years, lost short term memory, but he could still tell me the stories of his childhood. He was forever shaped by the era of his youth, and we have been still to this day. My mom, brother and I have a heard time letting go of things and are always trying to repurpose things instead of “wasting”. I don’t want to be a hoarder, and I like order, but it doesn’t come easy for me to throw things out or think minimalistic.
Thank you for your article. It made me feel like our story’s not so rare after all.
Wow thanks for the wonderful comment. It does sound like we have similar family experiences. I’m actually surprised people don’t talk about this more, that we’re often a result of our parents and grandparents struggles and behaviors.
I’m so glad my post connected with you!