Yes Frugality Matters, Stop The Nonsense

I’ve seen a lot of chatter and complaints in the blogosphere recently about frugality.  “Everyone writes about spending less” and “spending less isn’t really the most important factor, it’s about earning more”.  Or “Frugality is oversold in regards to financial independence”.

Oh really?

Here’s the area I live in.  The five wealthiest counties by median income in America are all D.C. suburbs and in my immediate area.

wealthiest counties

 

They’re not the ones surrounding New York, or San Francisco, they’re the ones surrounding Washington D.C.  And if you look at the census data and expand it to the top twenty wealthiest counties, then there are 4 more from the Washington DC area included.  The counties in red boxes are all D.C. suburbs.

wealthiest counties

 

So of the top twenty wealthiest counties in the America, a full NINE are in the Washington D.C. area, including the top five.  And remember, the median income for a family in the United States is $59,000.  Conveniently, the top 5 counties earn almost double that number or more.

In short, I live in what is by far the wealthiest area of the country.  I’m surrounded by people who earn damn good money.  It’s routine for a married couple to both be making six figure incomes, that’s just plain normal.

But here’s the thing – most of these couples and most people in my area are not financially independent, nor are they likely going to reach it.

Why?

They spend all their money!  

Not only do they spend the good money they make, they spend what they don’t even have.  They’re in debt, including consumer debt. 

Loudon County, VA – the wealthiest county in all of America – is also in one of the highest DTI categories, meaning they have a very high debt-to-income ratio!

wealthiest counties

 

Look at those wealthy counties around the D.C. region on that map.  They have generally higher DTI’s.  They’re in the brown categories, not the blue. 

But they have some of the highest incomes in America.

So some of the frugal-complainers have been chanting “It’s all about earning more money” 

Do these people need to earn more money?  Are you going to keep flogging that dead horse? 

Are you telling me that for the people in the wealthiest counties in America, where median incomes are about double the American median income or even higher, that they’re not earning enough?

Yes, the DC area is very expensive but it’s not that expensive.  I know.  I live here.

The people in my area will likely not reach financial independence because they spend too much, plain and simple.  This isn’t hard to understand.

Don’t tell me frugality doesn’t matter.

And it goes the same for folks earning similar, well-above median incomes in other parts of the country.  There’s millions of them out there, and they really should all be on the road to financial independence, or at least not in consumer credit card debt.

This my friends is why I write a lot about spending less.  And this is why I’ll continue to do so.

Do a lot of personal finance bloggers do the same?  Yes.  One writer who’s blog I enjoy, actually poked fun at those who write about frugality.  I get it, everyone has a niche. 

But obviously the message of frugality isn’t resonating with the masses.

Earning more AND spending less are both important to get to financial independence.  For many in America, they have the former but haven’t gotten the memo on the latter.

And before anyone gets triggered by this, yes I realize that I’m talking about a high income area.  But for a family making $50,000 a year (below the median), frugality still matters. 

Does it matter as much?  Well of course that family should focus on both earning more AND spending less.  Probably more of the former in that case.

Everyone has things they can stop spending on. Don’t make me go through the wants vs needs rundown again, you’ve been warned.

 

I’m So Sick Of Frugality

Maybe we should just toss out the word “frugal” all together.  It’s a loaded word at this point, and subjective after all.  How about just “spend less”.

When does “spend less” become “smart spending” become “frugal” become “cheapskate”?

Those are all subjective descriptions.  I’m not saying there are no cheapskates, there is a point when frugality gets to that level.  But a better way to move forward on this topic would be to stop trying to categorize or label people and realize the simple facts.

Spending less matters.

Spending less is indeed a huge factor in becoming financially independent.

If you don’t agree, I’ll invite you to come visit me and we’ll drive around the Washington D.C. suburbs, the richest area in the country (yes I keep repeating it for effect).  We have a big shopping mall called Tyson’s Corner, it’s one of most famous malls in the country, there’s a reason it’s here.  There’s a ton of high income people willing to feed the beast. 

If you go (I won’t set foot in it), you’ll see tons of very well-to-do people who are mostly still in debt, shopping for ridiculously expensive crap they don’t need.  They make GREAT money, they’ve got that part down.

They’re not, however, on the road to financial independence.  Many are going in the opposite direction.

So don’t tell me frugality and spending less don’t matter.  They do.

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Dave @ Accidental FIRE

I reached financial independence and semi-retired in my mid-40's through hard work, smart living, and investing. This blog chronicles my journey and explores many aspects of personal finance including the psychological and behavioral factors that drive our habits.

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62 Responses

  1. BusyMom says:

    Spending less matters. Many of the things people do in the name of frugality, that is what I have always done. Even though I am not frugal.

    It doesn’t matter how much you earn. Some of the things are plain wastage.

    People wasting groceries, for instance. 20%? 25%? I can’t remember the stats.

    Buying a lot of clothes? It is probably okay if you buy what you like and wear it all. Wanting to wear pretty/nice things is not wrong. Buying, and not wearing is. Even if you buy it at s sale

    I could go on and on. Maybe I should write a post instead of hijacking yours 🙂

  2. Doc G says:

    Great points here. I think the difference is that frugality means different things to different people. My wife and have relatively high incomes, so even though we spend 175k per year, we are pretty darn frugal compared to others in our income bracket or neighborhood. I guess it all comes down to the gap!. It doesn’t matter how much you spend as long as you save far more!

    And I’ll take you up on that offer to visit!

    • Accidental FIRE says:

      You spend quite a lot but your situation is different – you’re already FI. I’m addressing the many comments recently insinuating that “to get to FI” one should stop focusing on frugality etc. So I’m simply pointing out that the wealthiest in America aren’t going down the FI road, so what’s left in the equation – Frugality!

      Plus you are the MASTER at earning more – you have so many sources of income it makes my head spin!

  3. Preach! You can only earn so much and you can only spend so little (people gotta eat). But doing both is where its at. Finding that sweet spot where you’re growing your wealth and staying well.

    • Accidental FIRE says:

      Yep, the sweet spot or balancing the needle between the two parts is what’s key. But both parts are necessary!

  4. Mr. Financial Freedom Project says:

    Amen, brother! As someone who had an approximately average household income while working towards financial independence and was geographically limited in the ability to change that without moving away from family (something important to us that we avoid), I couldn’t agree more.

    It takes only $32,400 ($15.58/hour, full-time) to possess an income in the top 1% of the world on a per-person basis. 43% of us Americans are already there. The average adult is only $1,301 from joining the club as well. Why isn’t it enough?

    ERE and MMM taught us years ago that FI is truly a function of spending. And for the income-limited, it may be far easier to limit spending than to grow income.

    • Accidental FIRE says:

      It is so important for us Americans to look at our situations in context of the world – thanks for that reminder!

  5. steveark says:

    Good points! Those people could live on $100K and still save over half their income. That would be considered very frugal for those neighborhoods but would be a rich life style here in Arkansas.

    • Accidental FIRE says:

      Where I live if you drive a nice Volkswagon instead of a BMW or Mercedes folks consider you frugal. It’s ludicrous.

  6. Susan @ FI Ideas says:

    It’s habit forming. The more money coming in, the more possibilities to spend. It seems backwards, but I believe that you are on to something here. People are not realizing that the larger incomes are just enticing their spending ways.

    My in-laws are a great example. They earned a very high income, but my father-in-law loved to buy antique clocks, gadgets, old cars, you name it. When we recently helped them move to Assisted Living, we were shocked how close to bankrupt these “rich” people had become.

    • Accidental FIRE says:

      Lifestyle inflation. It’s a disease. With the popularity of minimalism in the past 5 years it’s good to see a backlash against it, but I don’t know how far that backlash can go.

  7. MrFIREby2023 says:

    This article reminds me of the fact that physicians tend to earn very high income and spend it all. I’ve known a couple of doctors who had huge homes (and mortgages!) luxury cars, sporting a $35k gold Presidential Rolex while wearing hospital scrubs and as far as their savings; they don’t have a pot to piss in. Not just physicians, it can be anyone such as your neighbors in D.C.
    I do agree with spending less and saving more but I also read of some bloggers whose frugality is off the chains which i feel is unnecessary. I know Mr Money Mustache is revered in our blog space but I couldn’t live like that. I’m all about the sweet spot in between extreme frugality and pissing it all away.
    My goals are a debt free FULL retirement in 4 years. My wife and I slept in this morning awakening at 8:30 (on a Saturday). To me, that’s living large!
    Great article you’ve written. It does a great job of illustrating how fools live; earning ultra-high incomes, keeping up with the Jones, and being only 1-2 paychecks away from bankruptcy.

    • MrFIREby2023 says:

      By the way, my brother in law resides near you (the author), is a 45 year old bachelor, works for a gov’t agency AND plows ALL his savings in cryptocurrencies (6-figures!). Maybe he knows something we don’t, or he’s an idiot. I guess we’ll soon see….

      • Accidental FIRE says:

        “Finding the sweet spot” is indeed the key. For those who make less they probably need to try to earn more, an for those who make above the median they probably need to focus on cutting spending. And there’s lots of gradients in between. But both are important and you won’t get to FI without both.

        Your BIL’s situation is common around here, maybe except for the bitcoin part. I wish him luck with that, too much excitement for me.

  8. Andrew says:

    Totally true! Have you noticed the Canada Goose coats that seemed to have come into fashion this past year? They have a little eye-catching logo patch sewn onto the coat sleeves, so they can instantly be spotted (I must admit, they look nice). Well I see at least 10 people/day wearing these coats, and they hover around $1,000 if not more.

    I try not to spend too much energy judging others, especially when I know nothing about them…but sometimes I do it anyways. I can’t imagine that all the 20-something young professionals I see wearing these coats are in a position where spending a grand on said coat makes sense.

    This is just one example I’ve noticed in the area. And you are right – when people are making enough money to wear a $1,000 coat, they can certainly be directing resources to put themselves on stable financial ground. What it really boils down to is that most people don’t think far enough into it to even consider financial freedom as a possibility. They just follow the crowd and think that’s how life is supposed to be lived.

    • Accidental FIRE says:

      I’ve only heard about Canada Goose in passing but didn’t realize they were that expensive. That’s nuts. I’ve climbed the highest mountain in Antarctica and lived down there in -30F temperatures and you know what down jacket I used the most? A $90 Columbia jacket I got on Sierra Trading Post. It was a whopping $170 originally and I got it on clearance. It kept me warm. A thousand dollar jacket is just ludicrous.

      • Andrew says:

        Yeah, I was coat shopping with my wife last winter and was stunned at how expensive those coats were. We found a coat for 1/10th of the cost, and she loves it.

    • Cee Elless says:

      Sweet jesus. I live and work in downtown DC and see tons of those but had absolutely no clue how expensive they are. Here, too, they are mostly worn by young professionals, and often accessorized with appropriately pricey purses and footwear.

  9. FAN tastic! I know this area too. Having spent some time there for work conferences. Very pretty, very pricey. NOT very pedestrian friendly, at least Falls Church anyhow. Didn’t stop me from walking to the mall for dinner one night though.
    I’m with you in that I hate the sound of the word “frugal” … It’s like somebody combined fugly with bugle. Guttural, nasty word. Spend less? I can get behind that.

    • Accidental FIRE says:

      “Fugly and bugle” – ha. I’m so stealing that!!

      As for not being pedestrian friendly, we do have the worst traffic in the US and most households have something outrageous like 2.5 cars or something crazy. But we also have the largest network of mixed-use trails in the country (biking/running etc). It’s a top-notch trail network and is one of the huge things that keeps me here.

  10. Yes well done!

    It is no wonder that our federal budget cannot be managed. The people living in the DMV can’t even manage their own households.

    I think you know I live in NoVA and there are plenty of families who think they cannot make ends meet making two six figure salaries. I 100% agree that no amount of money is enough for people with unlimited wants and who pursue happiness as their life goal. Financial independence is not easy, at any income level. Financial literacy is not conferred upon the wealth. Most generational wealth is gone by the second generation. I grew up affluent and was totally financially illiterate until I was literally eating peanut butter off a spoon, with no car, a three day a week job and massive student loan debt. I was a job loss away from homelessness. Financial discipline matters!

    • Cee Elless says:

      Not to get too high on my District horse, but we’re a nice, happy shade of blue here 🙂 Anyone have any idea how that happened?

      Your sneak peek of the county-by-county map made me go find the entire Federal Reserve map. What are those people in that big blue swath from North Dakota down to West Texas doing differently? And turns out the DMV isn’t the only place on the wrong end of the debt-to-income spectrum. The entire West Coast is lookin’ a little debt-y.

      • Accidental FIRE says:

        @Cee, yes there are parts of the country who make waaaaay less than the folks here and who have low income-to-debt ratios. So what are they doing differently? They’re not buying “all the things”, that’s what.

        • Cee Elless says:

          Very true! When I go back to visit the family in the rural uppper midwest, there aren’t shops full of $22 cocktail glasses or doggie daycares.

    • Accidental FIRE says:

      Exactly FIIntrovert, I’m just getting sick of the bloggers out there saying “getting to FI is only about earning a big fat salary”. Well the folks here in the DC region didn’t get that memo. The other memo they didn’t get was the one about spending smart or heaven forbid – Frugality!

  11. You’re gonna laugh because the very first thing I thought was that there are a lot of people making a lot of money off the taxpayers 🙂 I visualized House of Cards on Nteflix lol .
    Great post, yes let’s just focus on spend less as it is universal and means doing better tomorrow than you did today. I have really liked the constant posts that Tanja at ONL has done on mentioning this.

    • Accidental FIRE says:

      As FIIntrovert pointed out a large percentage of the people in the DC area work for the US Government. And you’d be surprised how many non-government people think that Federal Government workers don’t pay Federal taxes. How they ever got that idea I don’t know, but Federal Government employees pay the same exact taxes that everyone else pays (that’s excluding active duty military of course).

  12. Team CF says:

    Thank you! Finally someone that put’s his foot down to stop all this nonsense. There is northing wrong with being smart with your money, heck it’s a requirement for freedom!

  13. Interesting that DC itself apparently has a good DTI ratio, not sure why. This is so, so true, and probably one of the reasons I hate the very spending-conscious culture we’ve got going on here. You can make all the money in the world but that’s not going to help you if you spend every cent.

    And for those people not making all the money in the world, it’s doubly important. I worry sometimes about how many 20-somethings are living here and VERY likely not making a ton but buy into the consumer and happy hour culture. I’m so glad I got off that path before it went too far.

    • Accidental FIRE says:

      I noticed the low DTI for DC as well. Perhaps that’s the influence of the “old money” crazy-rich folks in NW? Either way, Loudon having such a high DTI is insane. Those folks make mad coin.

  14. millionairedoc1 says:

    Nice post. It’s about offense and defense. Most people are bad at defense – spending less that is. At any income level, it’s not what you make, but what you keep. I do agree that the word “frugal” has a somewhat negative connotation – makes people think of belt tightening, eating top ramen, shopping at Goodwill and for physicians- “living like a resident”. I like smart spending!

  15. I’m a few days late to reading this, but YES! I think I’m going to try out using the phrase spend less IRL, and see how my friends who don’t quite understand why we DIY and live frugally. I’ll let you know how it goes.

  16. Yeah people really get hung up on this “median household income of $57k” thing and tend to forget that if you live near (but not necessarily in) an urban setting, that’s not really a useful metric.

    It kills me that these FI bloggers – in light of some epic “haters gonna hate” comments on the FW in a few pseudo-mainstream media outlets and the whiny article from the outline – seem to be rushing to be like “what? who me? i would never do…” instead of doubling down on the “Yes you consumers spend too much” Are we discounting the ability of humans, reading things on the internet, being able to take what they can from some other situation and apply it to their own life?

    “You hear about that guy in robes and sandals giving out bread and fish?”
    -“Yeah but he grew up near a lake and a wheat field… privileged sot”

  17. “There’s a ton of high income people willing to feed the beast.”

    Yup, it’s really easy to blow your money if you have it. Americans save 2-5% of their income. I think savings rate in China is…40%? Yeah. Don’t tell me there’s no serious wiggle room in there to cut. Ugh! I don’t get why there is even an argument about frugality. It’s an important habit, yo!

  18. So many people seem to chase happiness by spending money. It is the goal that they can never reach. Whether you make $30,000 or $130,000 living below your means and not having the stress involved with trying to make payments or worrying about getting laid off just makes sense. My niece who lives in South Africa said the people over there have next to nothing but they are so happy, but the people here have so much and they are so unhappy. I believe that if Americans would save more we would be much happier overall.

    • Accidental FIRE says:

      Yes, America’s “happiness ranking” has continued to drop over the years. I realize those are very subjective, but I’ve also traveled the world quite extensively and found it to be pretty accurate.

  19. 100%.There was some feisty in this and I liked it because I feel the same. When I write about tuning out the noise, it has a lot to do with this frugality concept, or should I say misconception. I can only write about what I know, which is living an intentional lifestyle. But now, I have to try not to get people in a tizzy and make sure I put frugal/intentional/strategic in there to explain the same thing, which is spend within your means. 🙂

    • Accidental FIRE says:

      Tizzys will happen, it’s 2018. There’s no shortage of seemingly innocuous things that will surely offend someone. You just have to move forward 😉

  20. New to the blog Accidental Fire, and generally new to the concept of FIRE despite the fact that I’m well into my thirties. I completely agree with the post. Both income and expenses are important sides to the FI coin and while it’s important to have increased income, it’s perhaps more important to have reduced expenses. As I read your post, I just kept thinking of that famous quote: it’s not how much you earn, it’s how much you keep. The point is that a person making 50,000 a year who is about to save 50% of their income is far better than a person making $200,000 a year but spends it all (especially on depreciating assets that doesn’t have the potential to grow over time).

    Whatever word you want to call it, and no matter what emotion you have about it, spending less is very important for the average person to reach FI.

    Great post.

    • Accidental FIRE says:

      “It’s not how much you earn, it’s how much you keep.”

      I should have used that line in this post! Thanks for the compliment and glad you stopped by!

  21. Jon Baron says:

    I always like to think of frugality from a retirement perspective. For example, imagine if my monthly expenses are $3,000 ($36k a year) and my neighbor’s monthly expenses are $5,000 a month ($60k a year). Following the 4% rule, I only need $900k to retire (36k/4%). My neighbor on the other hand needs $1,500k to retire. That is a $600k difference! Imagine how many more years he/she will need to work than me in order to save up that difference. Frugality matters!

    • Accidental FIRE says:

      Exactly Jon! I find that flipping the 4% rule around and using the “multiply by 25” factor a better way to hammer the message home. In other words, if someone is deciding between a $1,000 flat-screen TV and a $400 one, that’s a $600 difference. So, $600 x 25 = $15,000!! That means you have to make another $15k in your retirement stash to make up for that!

      Math doesn’t lie!

  22. Patrice says:

    I totally agree with what you are saying here and have seen it. I lived in Fairfax County for 10 years, but moved back to California a few years ago. Salaries are really high in the DMV, even though cost of living is not super high (compared to say, CA). The interesting thing though is that housing values are stagnant in Fairfax and Loudoun counties. I sold my Reston house 4 years ago and had I held onto it and sold it today, I’d probably get about the same price, or just a little more. Most of my friends were living paycheck to paycheck and spending, spending, spending even though they (or their husbands) had really good salaries, but were saving nothing. They would spend $1,000 per month on kids activities, have 2 expensive car leases traded in every two years, expensive jeans, expensive vacations multiple times a year (nobody stays home for spring break), it goes on and on. But then they complain about a car or house repair that is needed and weren’t sure how to pay for it. I could go on and on with stories like this.

    • Fye @ Accidental FIRE says:

      Sorry, your comment got hung up in my spam folder. What you saw with your friends, I see it all the time too. It’s kinda the norm around here. I think so many people in this area will regret the way they lived when they’re 55 and realize they still have to work another 10 years or more to even come close to have enough to retire.

      Thanks for stopping by!

  23. Robyn says:

    I like this a lot! Of course spending matters! It has become a “thing” to discourage frugality as a course of action but IT MATTERS

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