I’m A Freak, And Cool With It
The number of people involved in the financial independence and FIRE movements is small. Some of us in the community might think there’s too many FIRE blogs and a seemingly endless conga line of “noobs” entering the fray to achieve FI and quit their depressing day jobs. But there’s about 330 million people in the United States, and a staggering 7.6 billion in the world. Trust me we’re a small movement. Really small.
Some have even called us a cult. I would classify us as a small counter-culture movement. We’re countering the predominant culture that worships mass consumerism, living paycheck to paycheck, taking on consumer debt, and not planning for retirement.
If you’re old enough to remember independent record stores, I would say we’re like that amazing girl who worked at your local record shop a few days a week. She was totally alternative and outside of the mainstream in every way, but also incredibly smart and beautiful at the same time. Damn I miss that girl…
I’m A Freak
…not normal
I’m not a normal guy. To quote the movie Young Frankenstein, my name might as well be “Abby Normal”. Do you want to know how abby normal I am? Well, besides saving my money religiously and semi retiring in my mid-40’s – which if you haven’t noticed is kinda rare – I have tons of other weirdo traits that land me fully outside of the mainstream in America.
In fact after writing them out it’s clear I’m a freak.
Let’s start with shopping habits. I haven’t been to an indoor mall in over fourteen years, not once. I’ve never purchased a single item at Whole Foods in my life – ever. I’ve bought something from Starbucks a total of six times in my entire life, and regret all six of them. And those instances were only because my realtor kept sending me a $5 Starbucks gift card every year for my birthday. So at least I didn’t spend my own money.
I’ve also never:
- Been on a cruise. I’ll probably die with this distinction.
- Been to Disneyland, or World, or any other version
- Set foot in a Costco, Sam’s Club, Bed Bath & Beyond, or bunch of other “chain” stores. Not once.
- Been inside a Chick-fil-A, Dairy Queen, or many other nationwide fast food joints. Never walked in the door, once.
- Had Netflix, HBO, or any movie channel for that matter. Ever. I don’t care. I cut my cable TV eight years ago.
- Seen supposedly must-see movies like the Matrix, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Batman (any), Oceans-whatever, Bourne-whatever. Name your blockbuster and it’s likely I’ve never seen it.
In the past 12 years I’ve seen one movie in a theater, because it was a rock climbing movie. (<–affiliate link). I have my priorities.
Look, I’m not saying I’m better than you or anyone because of these things. Quite the contrary. I’m just pointing out that I’m very different.
I climb frozen waterfalls, and huge piles of rock. Just to come back down. Not only is it dangerous, it’s not normal. I put my bike on top of my stand up paddleboard, paddle down a river for 10 miles, and then put the board on my bike and ride it back to the car.
In the past two years I’ve ridden my bikes far more miles than I’ve driven my car.
My dishwasher broke over 14 years ago and I just never got it fixed. I really don’t need one, I’m still surviving just fine thanks.
I know, what a freak. Tell me about it.
50 Yards Away
A little while back the guy behind the blog LivingAFI.com came out of hibernation and did a post that recapped the last 3 years of his life since quitting his job.
It made a sizable ruckus in the FIRE community because his blog was quite popular, and he’s a damn good writer.
In that update post, he summarized thoughts from one of his older posts in an attempt to describe what makes “abby normal” folks like myself tick. He wrote:
Certain people are just wired to be like everyone else. To move with the pack, stay with the herd socially and so on. Others don’t feel as constrained and aren’t as bothered when they find themselves fifty yards away from where everyone else is. These tendencies and preferences are part of our core personality makeup.
Fifty yards away. Yep, that kinda sums me up nicely. In so many facets of life I seem to find myself fifty yards away from the pack, the herd.
Not always, but more often than not.
By nature I’ve always been skeptical of fads or trends. When the crowd moves to the right I tend to move to the left, or at least stay still. I’m a skeptic, a contrarian. It’s always been in my nature.
Our Cult
Ready to climb! …what a freak
Regular Accidental FIRE readers might be rolling their eyes right now. They know I use Amazon, and shop at Trader Joe’s and Aldi. I do. It’s not like I’ve totally walled myself off from everything that “the pack” does in a deliberate attempt to just be different.
I evaluate things solely based on the value I get from them – whether it be a store, entertainment, or an activity, and stick with what works for me.
I’m sure there are lots of movies I haven’t seen that I would like. I’m okay with not finding them, because the time I’ll have to waste enduring really bad ones in the process isn’t worth it. I really value my time, that was the whole point in semi-retiring early in the first place.
Damn if I’m gonna waste it watching some shitty movie.
So this begs the question, does one have to be a bit of of a freak, or “fifty yards away”, to achieve financial independence? Is the tractor beam of American consumerism so strong that resisting it demands a counter-culture lifestyle?
Those are open-ended questions, I don’t have the answers. But I do know that compared to most Americans, especially those in my age demographic, I’m pretty much a freak.
And I’m okay with it.
Your Turn – Are you pursuing financial independence, and if so do you consider yourself a counter-culture freak?
As you mentioned in your comment in my post today it is quite an interesting coincidence we both posted about being unique compared to others in the niche.
If you want to live an extraordinary life you have to do things that are not ordinary. You certainly fit the bill.
As do you Doc – well said!
I don’t think a person needs to be fifty yards away to achieve financial independence. But I do think it’s more likely for people who aren’t afraid to be different. It’s a willingness to be curious. It’s wanting to see what the view is like from a different vantage point. When you’re in the crowd, all you can see is other people. When you move to the perimeter the vista opens up, the possibilities grow, and the constraints lessen.
Great comment, I’ve always said that curiosity is the gateway to intelligence and success. Thanks for the comment!
“I evaluate things solely based on the value I get from them”.
This pretty much sums up any successful person who is solely focused on a goal and has the discipline to not waver from it. I think a person who is looking to achieve financial independence needs to be disciplined in the way they spend their money and their time. That may in turn move them further away from “the pack” or it may not. To me, it depends on who your “pack” is. Aren’t you the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with?
Well said Dan, and these days I’d have to say I spend most of my time with my fellow cycling buddies. It’s a health and fitness-focused life, and none of them know about my stealth wealth 🙂
I think that nonconformists actually have a harder time achieving FI if their degree of disconnect from societal norms is extreme. To climb the corporate ladder it is necessary to gain the respect and trust of the herd, that is harder for people who live obviously different lives. However your “odd” traits were probably not highly visible to your coworkers. Nobody shops or goes to movies with their coworkers so unless you made it a point to stress how different you were it is likely your work peers considered you to be just like them. Stealth frugality is what I practiced, I did not make it a point to stress to others that I lived in a modest house and had modest toys. Many of the status items like my car and country club membership were provided to me for free by my job. I’m sure most of the people whom I worked with assumed I spent way more money than I did. I learned early on that you just don’t emphasize the things that make you different, unless they are things others will admire, like my running marathons. If I was eating out on the company expense account with others I did not get a doggy bag for leftovers, if I was eating alone on expense account I always did.
Great comment Steve, and you make a really good point that I didn’t address. Over my career I’m sure I seemed mostly normal to my colleagues at work. The only “red flag” of not being normal is that I would never have anything to add when the water cooler conversations turned to pop-culture, TV shows, and movies – and they always seem to do that. I would usually just listen to them talk about that stuff and stay quiet, not having a clue as to what they were saying. But I agree that in many (not all) business cultures folks who stray too far from a ‘normal’ could jeopardize their upward mobility.
Great article Dave! I do think it’s a bit easier for those that don’t feel a strong need to fit in to achieve alternative goals in life, like FI. I figured out at about 19 that if I always had jobs that included housing, then I would never need to make piles of money and would have a lot more freedom. Sometimes people question my lifestyle and assume I don’t have a lot of financial means because of this lifestyle. And I’m just fine with that:)
Thanks for posting my favorite photo! I realized recently that my board can’t support my steel framed bike with a person on it.
That’s a great hack Andrea, a job with housing included is knocking out one of the big 3 expenses, the biggest actually. And when its in Antarctica it’s even better!
As for your list of things you haven’t experienced, you’re not missing anything. And I wish I could give most of those experiences back as a giant waste of my time.
I think anyone pursuing FI has to have some measure of going against the grain in them, at least in our society. Not so much that we’re wearing clothes with holes in them and living out of our cars to save money, but definitely not desperate to fit in either. We do seem to be an unusually skeptical bunch who are secure enough in ourselves to buck a lot of trends and influences–and often to take pride in it!
If that makes you, or any of us, freaks, so be it. But why is being financially self-destructive considered normal in the first place? Why the FIRE movement isn’t bigger is really beyond my comprehension.
I do have a few tshirts with small holes, but mostly for yard work 🙂 And I agree, the fact that FI/FIRE aren’t more desirable or mainstream is very weird. Who doesn’t want freedom?
Great article, Dave and oddly a nice precursor to my upcoming “Punk as FI” article this week. I totally missed the “50 Yards Away” line in LaF’s post, but I love it. I’ve spent my life living 50 or more yards out in terms of ideology and behavior relative to the norm, particularly in terms of consumerism and following “the script” and it’s been great. Like Steve says above, it’s not necessary visible and I had a blast in my corporate career so kind of the best of both worlds.
Is it compulsory to be “50 yards away” to achieve FI/RE? I don’t think so, but if one was to take a close look at those of us who are /aspire to, I think there’d certainly be a very strong and visible theme of “freakishness” that runs through most of us.
Screw the script! And sounds like me, you , and SteveArk all played the corporate normality games enough to move up, but lived abby normal lives outside of work. It’s a recipe for success!
Interesting article, Dave. I think that the successful pursuit of financial independence requires the ability to conform to societal expectations, at least within the workplace. If you are perceived as being too far out there, it can hinder career progress and limit the earning potential that makes the RE part of FIRE possible.
That’s not to say that you need to agree with or fully cave to societal expectations… And, in fact, I completely agree that those pursuing this lifestyle should be or get comfortable with being an outsider. I also think the movement requires both enough introspection to identify your values, and the courage and conviction to go for it (bucking the norms, if required).
Perhaps the movement is so small because it takes a delicate balance of personality traits to succeed. But I’m encouraged that the larger the (supportive) community grows for the movement, the more people with find that they may not be in the majority, but they are not alone.
You and SteveArk both brought up the point of conforming in the workplace and I think it’s a great point. As I replied to Steve I really did that well. I can conform when necessary, but still flew my freak flag high outside of work – thanks for the great comment!
i’m right behind you on all those things you have not done or not done in a long time. mall? about 15 years ago. a cruise? not even if you paid for my ticket AND booze. disney? never. costco or sam’s club? nope. chick fil-a, DQ? never, but i did used to work for mcd’s back in my teens. blockbuster movies? missed almost all of them since star wars. the old man relented and we saw it at the drive-in a year after release! last movie theater movie was around 2003 for american splendor.
if you ask me it is total disregard for any external validation that drives these habits. and…it’s not like i don’t ever waste any time on the couch or spend any money? lots of people could look at my viewing habits and wine consumption and judge as what a waste of time/money! go ahead. they don’t get a vote. i also agree that not all of those activities are wrong in any way but just not my cup of tea. i’m not asking the public to adopt my lifestyle and demand that same courtesy in return.
to answer your question i feel like a proud member of the counterculture, just with the elements that work for me.
I knew you’d like this one dude, and go figure that you haven’t been to the movies way longer than me. My brother also worked for Mcd’s way way back in the day and him bringing home free food at 1:00 in the morning was a major contributor to me being obese. Fuck McDonalds and that poison crap!
I love reading articles like this. I’m definitely part of the counter-culture. Certainly have my purchases that others wouldn’t agree are “frugal”, but that’s not the point. Like you said, I spend my money on what I value and will get use out of. None of it is fancy, but I like it. Can’t wait to reach financial independence (darn kids), but it will still be awhile for me. Still nice to know that I’m well on my way and I have others blazing the trail in front of me.
Stay on the path, you’ll get there, it’s a game of patience for sure!
I would not say a counter-culture freak for myself as there are plenty of things my wife and I do that are just like many other people.
In my case it seems to be multi-faceted from about zero interest in status, genuine questioning of the status quo, an “engineer’s mind” to try to solve problems efficiently, and also just loving autonomy. It’s not super common that a kid says “I can’t wait to retire” before age 10 or so, but that was me. After listing all of that I suppose “Don’t tread on me” is maybe my thing.
Holy schmoly, before 10!? You’re a natural Pete – chapeau!
It’s OK to not fit in. That’s what I’ve learned. 🙂
Agreed Bob, and some might even say it’s hip, but those folks are freaks too, haha
I don’t think I consider FIRE as a counter-culture freak. I think the movement is getting so much traction these days so that it’s becoming much more mainstream. Especially with the pandemic, people are saving in double digits now for the first time ever in the very long time!
Either ways, as long as the movement makes you happy, I don’t consider you a freak at all 🙂
The savings rate was high last year and I posted about it… I’ll have to check the latest numbers as I highly doubt it’ll stay that way. Most of America wants to return to normal so they can spend spend spend. Call me a cynnic but bet against me if you dare 🙂
What I read is that you are someone that knows what he likes and doesn’t like, values his time, and isn’t afraid to do something different or go in a different direction. To me that’s inspiring! I do agree FI community is very small. Pretty much anytime I say the words “financial Independence or “early retirement” to anyone I know, it’s like I’m suddenly speaking in a language they don’t know. I guess its safe to say if you aren’t doing what most people are doing then they are going to look at you differently. But, that’s okay. I’d rather live life on my on terms.. 😉
Life on our own terms is great innit? And the rare times I mention FI to anyone they usually look at me like I have a third arm coming out of my head….
FI is the tool that provides space for MTB, gravel bike, trail running, mountaineering, backpacking and my new paddle board that arrives soon. I’m cool with being a FREAK ! Keep rocking it 🙂
Cool, you got one! Did you get a rigid or inflatable? I think you’re gonna love SUP, it’s an awesome activity that can also provide an amazing workout.
I am in agreement with you, the FI movement is very small percentage of the current population, and most of the FI habits considered extreme for the average consumer.
This point was explained by Jakub (ERE) in his forum about Wheaton’s FI scale, where is the average consumer is level 1 and the FIRE movement is on level 5-7 ..
everyone one level above you is admirable to you, two levels is considered extreme and 3 levels and above is considered insane…
https://forum.earlyretirementextreme.com/viewtopic.php?p=125960&sid=166053c045f13a9f3e84a2abb08fe50a#p125960
Here is my not-normal list :
a. I don’t own a car.
b. Never had a NetFlix, HBO or any paid media subscriptions.
c. Very rarely I eat out. [Once every 3-4 months].
d. I don’t buy into brands and expensive products.
e. Never been on a cruise. not intended to go either.
f. Never been to Disneyland, or World, or any other version..
So you are not alone .. it is just you are from a rare tribe.
I love ERE and that’s a great system to measure. Seems we have quite a bit in common, you freak 🙂
Fun read, Dave! And coming off Fates’ latest post which you also remarked was quite similar—they fit well together. And you’re right, you’re a bit of a nutter. In the best way. 😉
We just got in from a four hour paddle board and float down the river. We strapped in drinks and music, snacks and necessities. Had a ball, but, there was no bike strapped in! Haha. Love that, and a great combo. Jenni and I just capped ours off with a quick 5k once home—skipped that paddle board on a bike approach! Perhaps there’s varying levels of crazy in the FI community. Ha.
But you’re right, I think it takes just a couple loose screws to look at the world and think “ok, but, is this how it really has to work in life?”, and then to shake it all up and try your own version. Nothing wrong with that! I don’t envy the alternative.
Yes, crazy comes in various scales, we all have to find our position on that scale. Sounds like you had a really nice outdoor adventure day, thanks for stopping by!
I’m not mainstream either. That’s why I’m not good at stock picking. I don’t understand why Apple, NetFlix, Facebook, and Costco are so popular. There are much better values out there. Anyway, I think you have to be a bit of a lone wolf to be successful at FIRE. You have to ignore what other people think and go your own way.
You are FAR from mainstream Joe and that’s why you’re so popular in the FI community and have been an inspiration to so many FI seekers. Keep doing your thing!
Awesome post Dave! I’m a freak too, and pretty proud of it!
Let that flag fly Tako!!
You are probably right, FI is a relatively small group of people. This comment gives me additional courage to start my own blog about our path to early retirement (less than two years away) and enjoying life while at it. Looking forward to joining the small but mighty group of FI warriors!
Awesome, glad I could help inspire you – join our freaky little club!